SKY LOTTING

After what happened last night I think this needs clearing up once and for all.

We have a lotting system is Sky based on points and priorities. In 6 months we have never had free lot on any item unless I have stated it is rott. Kirin is not an acception to the rule.

The reasons:

We are a social/event LS: The only way we can achive things that endgame LS's do is by commitment from our members. An LS mentanlity rather than a single player mentality.

We reward effort/attendance: For 6 months people have been coming to events twice weekly. Some people come every run without fail. Others have outside commitments that makes this more difficult. We understand this completley, and make allowances for it.

It often makes it difficult for us to plan ahead, and we have to work twice as hard to low man things and create strats to achive things with few members. Yet we have adjusted and we have been doing unbelievibly well in sky over recent months.

The more often people come, the more points they recive. It is them that have worked for hours farming pops for people drops. Them have have killed the gods to get the seals so that we can pop Kirin. So ultimatley it is them that are rewarded first.

Priority drops: Because we have to work on a low man strat equiping the correct people is paramount. People need to focus on the bigger picture. If we have our paladins with crimson cuises, if we have our mages in zenith, our dd's is the best dmg dealing gear, we will be able to achive more.

By me reciving the cruises last night we have opened up the ability to kite jailers in sea. Certian mobs up there we would not have been able to fight without me having them. Due to that people now have the chance to recive Sea items that they would not previously have had an option for. Same goes for kiting when shadowbind fails, or pulling when our one & only rng is unable to attend.

When people recive items for their key job it helps the whole ls. It is not about personal gain. Yes we all want nice items, thats why we go. But we have never been drop driven. If your all about the drops go endgame. This is the only way our kind of ls can achive things.

Points - vs- Priority: Both acpects are taken into account. If someone rarely attends yet their job deems an item as a priority need then this is taken into account. Within reason. If someone has 400 points and a none priority job and someone has 30 points with a priority, the 400 point person is going to get them. How is it fair that someone who has attended 3 x gets a drop over someone attending 40?

YOU EFFECT YOUR OWN DROPS: We want people to get their items. In fact more than that, we NEED people to get their items. Each drop we get makes the LS that little bit stronger. And makes us that bit more capable of killing something we could not before. Or killing things quicker with less deaths, less xp loss etc. If you attend you will be rewarded. It is not the fault of the people that do come every run, that you can not attend. People who come infrequently are reciving items, and on a regular basis now.

WHY? We use this system because its FAIR. Everything is clearly marked up on the forum wishlist who is next in line for a drop. This varies with each session due to attendance, drops etc. It ensures that everyone recives the correct items and that it is clear to see there is no backhanded dealing going on. People never obtain a drop out of favoratism, or any other reason other than their efforts/job have waranted that drop.

With reference to yesterday:

Yesterday we achived something we have been unable to do before. And its the greatest achivement of our LS to date. Everyone who attended did brilliantly and should be very proud of themselves.

Yet we went from covering ourselves in glory to looking like a pack of vultures. Now on the forum it clearly states about lotting, as it did on the email I sent out to every member. I was also about to explain in LS chat until the whole LS suddenly started lotting. Now as a group we know better than that. We have always waited to be told who to lot, and Kirin is no different. Things could have gone very wrong last night with the lotting and cost us the ability to do things in sea due to it. If people dont understand then ask.

We have Sky leaders, use them. Send them tells if you have a consern. Often I have several people trying to talk to me at once as well as trying to allot drops etc. If i dont answer I am not being ignorant, I literally dont have time.

The future: Now Kirin is going to be a regular event, fortnightly depending on pop sets. We are also going to use the red event pearl for Dyna and possibly some other things. It is all in the planning process at the moment. We will keep you updated.

Sky points only relate to sky. So these points will not travel over to other events. With Dyna particularly we will be working as one LS with a completley fresh start.

Regarding leadership: On a personal note. I want this LS to suceed, and have worked, alongside others, really bloody hard to get us to the stage we are at now. We run things this way for the reasons shown above. I have never ripped anyone off. I go out of my way to clearly show every process that defines lots and gil pools.

Everything is designed with fairness in mind, not for my own personal gain. If I was all about my own equipment I would have gone back to full endgame and just sat back in the ranks for an easy life. Running events and running an LS the size of ours in not all sunshine and flowers. The only reason I do it is because you all want me to.

I have never played up to the 'I am you leader, bow to me' bollox. We're a team and always have been. But I do deserve a dam sight more respect than I recived last night. If people want to moan about their items, look at themselves. The process is fully explained and it is fair. Your chances at drops is deemed only by your own actions not by the LS or by me.

If people have an issue with the system then talk to me. Not when a drop is hanging in the treasure pool. Raise concerns on here or in /tell to me. I am more than happy to listen to comments and to explain anything people dont understand. But I need you all to also understand this. I have final say. We work as a team, and I always take other peoples points of view into account. The whole system has worked for 6 months and was not soley my desision to put in place. We talked it through at lenght with the other leaders.

Now if someone can point out a fundemental flaw in our system then we will obviously consider this. But at the moment this system stands. People will wait til they are told to lot, and we will not have a repeat of what happened last night. You will get your items. And for my part I hope your experience of finally getting a drop you have waited 4 years for is not tainted as fully as mine was last night.

Im not happy about last night at all sorry to say this but i can't trust you guys so im going to think over the next few days about pulling out of events with this ls.

In all fairness I'm not aware that any malice was involved, and I am putting it down to a misunderstanding over lotting priorities, though there should never have been confusion in the first place, I have seen it happen before, in fact I even lotted on a item I wasn't meant to once in another ls, that ended up costing me 1.5 mil to replace the item >.<

It wasn't everyone lotting the item, and I'm not sure it is fair to mistrust the entire ls over it, we have never had the situation where that has happened before and I am sure we will not have it happen again.

Luckily it didn't reflect badly enough on us to have the other LS, whom we were arranging Dynamis runs with, reconsider future runs or the Dynamis offer.

It was a bit of a downer after a great evening to hear all the arguments kicking off, and think once people have understood the lotting order for items, we should focus on a successful Sky run last night and concentrate on getting Seals together to pop another Kirin. I certainly don't want to lose members over it, as that seems a slightly backward way to pat ourselves on the back.

yeah sic its unfair of me to say dont trust the whole ls sorry

I'm terribly sorry about lotting yesterday I don't know what happened as gear has never been my focus, nor have I ever felt cheated or swindled; I attend LS events because I care about the LS and want to be a part of what we do here. It seems to me we got overly excited about 1, killing Kirin, and 2, getting some decent drops, and the mind just sorta disengaged from what we all (that attend sky regularly) know is the way we do sky drops.

I'm sorry your acquisition of the legs was tainted by confusion Boo & I'm sorry Tara is feeling a lack of trust in LS members. alla this make me not want to even log in for a long time. I'm so embarrassed.

aww cha cha no need to feel embarrassed least you lot got to see the drops lol i was miffed at near the end when he was dead i got told to drop even though i had MP galore but did say to cha cha at despot that kirin = arguments lol next time we will hopefully have better run and least boz got his legs grats m8 now even more possibilities for killing stuff

madcowtully wrote:aww cha cha no need to feel embarrassed least you lot got to see the drops lol i was miffed at near the end when he was dead i got told to drop even though i had MP galore but did say to cha cha at despot that kirin = arguments lol next time we will hopefully have better run and least boz got his legs grats m8 now even more possibilities for killing stuff

I think you we're taken out to let red in as thf. Not realising that we'd already slotted him in to another party.

If people need the title can you let me know please before the run and we will see what we can do about getting you in.

And Chacha... It's done. This post was not a moan just a clarification to prevent such things happening again. So please dont stress about being embarassed.

Ok...

I want to expand on my comments about things on a personal level.

Genuinley I was hoping that people would have considered things and by now seen the light. But apparantly this is not the case.

So it looks like I need to do something about things before they continue to get out of hand.

I will do this on the ls also, yet it is less easy to get my point accross on there without interruption.

I am fully aware that since Tuesday many of the members have been calling me personally and some what loudly to both other LS members and people outside of the LS.

Now this leaves me in a difficult situation... apparantly not being welcome by several members in my own ls. So I suggest we need to rectify this before things continue to get out of hand.

I know who the majority of people are, and I suggest you talk to me personally to discuss your concerns. I have fully explained the reasoning behind the lotting system. When really I had no need to justify myself what so ever. But if some points are of concern then send me a tell or a pm on here.

For the people who have been saying I am dishonest, a thief, that I have used the LS to get items for myself and other stack holders. You are not only deluded. But if you really think like that then I dont not understand why you wish to stay in an ls run by such a monster.

Perhaps you could attempt to justify to me your thinking behind these comment. As I have show the facts about the lotting system from day one. Because quite honestly not only is it personally offensive, but the people sending tells and doing this are seriously putting the ls at risk of breaking.

Now reference SKY:

We still have a lot of people who need items. And many of them have worked hard to get into a position where they are nearing getting drops such as byakko pants. The pop sets are owned by the LS not by me, so if the general concesnus is that I can not be trusted and someone else wishes to take over the running of events then thats fine.

I dont not want my presence to effect other peoples chances of getting the items they too have earnt.

If people in general wish to continue as we have been doing I am also happy to do this. But I will not lead an LS where people are stirring behind my back. Talk to me, clear the air and we will see what the outcome is.

Let me know either way & i will do my best to accomodate the LS's wishes. Im beyond getting stressed about it, save the ls yourselves or give up. Until people actually speak up I can do nothing about it.

The only reason I lotted was because I misunderstood Boza, everyone was sending him /tells and I'm sure he didn't have time to fully explain every detail to every person so it seemed like a big misunderstanding to everyone. I have fought Kirin about 16 times now with ls and others and have been trying to get those pants for almost 3 years now and do you see me flipping out on Boza? No. I was mad that I didn't get the pants but I was confused on the lotting rules and what was going on. After Boza explained everything I fine and completely understood everything. I know I haven't been in this ls as long as some people but from what I have seen Boza has worked his ass off to set up all the sky runs, make sure they go smooth and explain everything when needed. Although he wasn't on Pld for Kirin it doesn't mean he doesn't need them. Boza is the main Pld of the ls and some things aren't possible without certain gear, like kiting. The crimson pants are the best gear any tank can have for kiting, so no matter who got them someone would have and issue with it, at least this way people that have sea can get even more gear since Boza can now fight new Nm's that weren't possible before. Also, all the lotting rules are stated on the site, I have Boza go out of his way to help everyone and he makes all of the Sky runs, so going off the rules he has high points and priority to get them. So no matter what you think Boza go them to help the ls become better and stronger at end game events. This is just a game after all and its meant for fun, nothing in game can harm you in real life lol, so I'd hate to see such a good ls fall apart over such a stupid misunderstanding. I hope the people with issues over this event can work it out and we can go back to a fun, enjoyable ls like we used to be. Thanks

The only reason I lotted was because I misunderstood Boza, everyone was sending him /tells and I'm sure he didn't have time to fully explain every detail to every person so it seemed like a big misunderstanding to everyone. I have fought Kirin about 16 times now with ls and others and have been trying to get those pants for almost 3 years now and do you see me flipping out on Boza? No. I was mad that I didn't get the pants but I was confused on the lotting rules and what was going on. After Boza explained everything I fine and completely understood everything. I know I haven't been in this ls as long as some people but from what I have seen Boza has worked his ass off to set up all the sky runs, make sure they go smooth and explain everything when needed. Although he wasn't on Pld for Kirin it doesn't mean he doesn't need them. Boza is the main Pld of the ls and some things aren't possible without certain gear, like kiting. The crimson pants are the best gear any tank can have for kiting, so no matter who got them someone would have and issue with it, at least this way people that have sea can get even more gear since Boza can now fight new Nm's that weren't possible before. Also, all the lotting rules are stated on the site, I have Boza go out of his way to help everyone and he makes all of the Sky runs, so going off the rules he has high points and priority to get them. So no matter what you think Boza go them to help the ls become better and stronger at end game events. This is just a game after all and its meant for fun, nothing in game can harm you in real life lol, so I'd hate to see such a good ls fall apart over such a stupid misunderstanding. I hope the people with issues over this event can work it out and we can go back to a fun, enjoyable ls like we used to be. Thank

Bravo Sir, couldn't have put it better myself.

Boza is under a good deal of pressure as it is, I want everyone to get their items they have on their lists. I do not want the LS to fragment over what happened at Kirin. Please can we halt any sniping that is going on and get back to getting triggers, and killing demi-gods for treasure, pwease? Because if Boza wasn't organising the Sky runs, nobody would, as I don't know many people who would want to take on that kind of responsibility, I for one would not.

Boza wrote:Ok...
I am fully aware that since Tuesday many of the members have been calling me personally and some what loudly to both other LS members and people outside of the LS.

For the people who have been saying I am dishonest, a thief, that I have used the LS to get items for myself and other stack holders. You are not only deluded. But if you really think like that then I dont not understand why you wish to stay in an ls run by such a monster.

Perhaps you could attempt to justify to me your thinking behind these comment. As I have show the facts about the lotting system from day one. Because quite honestly not only is it personally offensive, but the people sending tells and doing this are seriously putting the ls at risk of breaking.

Now reference SKY:

We still have a lot of people who need items. And many of them have worked hard to get into a position where they are nearing getting drops such as byakko pants. The pop sets are owned by the LS not by me, so if the general concensus is that I can not be trusted and someone else wishes to take over the running of events then thats fine.

I dont not want my presence to effect other peoples chances of getting the items they too have earnt.

If people in general wish to continue as we have been doing I am also happy to do this. But I will not lead an LS where people are stirring behind my back. Talk to me, clear the air and we will see what the outcome is.

Let me know either way & i will do my best to accomodate the LS's wishes. Im beyond getting stressed about it, save the ls yourselves or give up. Until people actually speak up I can do nothing about it.

For the people who have been saying I am dishonest, a thief, that I have used the LS to get items for myself and other stack holders. Anyone that has been to sky with any regularity knows that is ridiculous.

The pop sets are owned by the LS not by me, so if the general concensus is that I can not be trusted and someone else wishes to take over the running of events then thats fine. no no no no no... I trust you completely & it seems you have some trust in us too or we would not have been given pop items to hold, sell, & return the gil to you.

personally, I have heard nothing negative about you from anyone...but then maybe they know better. I would not be too receptive to anyone downing the one person that has done everything in their power to make this a wonderful LS, and for any who had had a 'problem' with anything you have done, I've suggested that address you directly. That's what I do and we have "disagreed" about some things in the past.

thanks for your post Darth. it was spot on.

I've known boza for 4 years and in that time hes been nothing but helpful and never ripped anyone off, anyone that is calling him a thief needs to look at the forum more often and read the lotting rules that have been there since day 1. happy to right this off as a misunderstanding but any back biting needs to stop, would be a shame to see whats been built up destroyed by us actually beating kirin.

tric wrote:I've known boza for 4 years and in that time hes been nothing but helpful and never ripped anyone off, anyone that is calling him a thief needs to look at the forum more often and read the lotting rules that have been there since day 1.

DRUNKEN RANT HERE ALSO KNOWN BOXZ FOR UMPTEEN YEARS AND HIS OTHER HALF TARARA (mini crown) AND ALWAYS BEEN HONEST AND SHIT AND MOO MOO LOVES EM TO BITS /SNIFFLE /SNIFFLE

Old members Know but not many new I have a Char on another server and Have been in a serious HNMLS for four years. Gear causes a lot of infighting we have a five leader system there where they discuss who gets what. Sometimes a brand new member will get a piece of gear for the simple sake they are in the ls for that job specifically and that gear will help that persons job which in turn helps the ls.

Boza has done a very fair and equitable job in lotting there are not many ls's that I know of that you can get gear and also get paid for attending sky. Rare drops will always cause issue and yes it was a misunderstanding but the truth be known. Boza has expended more HP then any of us. He and Tara have gone and farmed waters on thier own time so that we can benefit from those drops. He leads and has to put up with all our personalities and mini drama's. No one deserved that drop more. Just from a basic simple time expended stress endured stand point.

As in all families misunderstandings happen.. But please take the time to recognize the work Boza puts into the ls as a whole. And ask yourself if you'd want that on your shoulders.

Thanks for the comments people. The last week has been pretty crap for both me & for the LS in general. I hope the people that have been the ones passing comment have considered their thoughts on the matter.

No-one has actually bothered to talk to me about the things they have been saying. So I'm guessing they will either no longer come to events or will just make out that nothing has been said.

I'll put my personal feeling on the matter aside for the good of the LS, and wont bother approching them. Nothing can really be gained from it other than further aguments. Although my opinion on certain members has changed massivley.

We have also taken on board some peoples genuine concerns about struggling to attend on a Sunday and it damaging their points. As such Sky is now moved to Mon & Tues. Hopefully this will up our numbers and help everyone get items quicker.

If people are concerned about drops have a scout around on the page. I have always listed our drops and who they have gone to. Lots of different people have recived items. Sometimes on their very first run.

Case closed for now... Unless people decide they want to talk to me about it to clear the air.

Hopefully see you all tonight.